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 Entitlement at shows

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rem999
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PostSubject: Entitlement at shows   Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:13 pm

Let me first preface this by saying that this is not directed at anyone on this board in particular, and at times I feel I have been guilty of this mentality myself.  Let me also say that I suspect that the phenomena I am about to outline occurs among every band that has moderate/large amounts of success.

Every now and then I've noticed discussion surrounding people who weren't "real fans" having a presence at live shows.  It usually details someone at a show who doesn't know the words to the songs or may not look like they're enjoying the show.  This parlays into people implying that their own presence at the show is more deserving since they have "been a fan since (Enter Album here)", or that they've seen them live X amount of times.  

I find this sense of entitlement that I've witnessed or overheard a little disturbing.  As far as I'm concerned each and every paying attendee at a show has a equal right to be there, as long as they are being respectful to the band and other fans.  Maybe the guy who "doesn't know the words" feels uncomfortable singing in public.  Maybe the girl who looks like "she's having a bad time" just looks like that.  Who knows.  Maybe this is the first time said person has ever seen TGA live.  We all had that first show and I am sure we all didn't know the words to every song.  Maybe on the way out they're going to buy a record and it will become his/her favorite record.

Being a fan of a band isn't a competition.  The band has ways of rewarding the super uber fans out there.  If you're super dedicated you'll find out about shows like the ones at Varvatos or Vinyl.  You'll find out about Brian's shows in Garwood.  I know people travel long distances and wait for a long time in line to see the band, but when Gaslight goes on a major world tour, expect there to be people there who might not have the same outward enthusiasm as you.  The show you traveled 2,000 miles across an ocean for might be attended by some guy who lives down the block and was just looking for something to do that night.

I was at the second night Brian did at Crossroads the last time around.  There were two guys in front of me who seemed a little confused as to why Brian wasn't playing Gaslight songs.  Me and the people I was with explained that Brian was playing "Elsie" all the way through.  It turns out that they had never heard of the Horrible Crowes.  Instead of shutting them down and not giving them the time of day I was excited for them because there was this great album that they ended up buying during the show.  I know I didn't do anything most people at that show wouldn't have done but I still see/hear the element of entitlement sometimes.  

I'm curious as to what other people on here think about this sort of thing going on at shows?  Do you think its a problem or no?  Have you ever been guilty of this?  I'd like to know if I'm the only one who thinks this or not...
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jensomniac
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PostSubject: Re: Entitlement at shows   Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:03 pm

You are definitely not the only one who thinks this. I will say, the other two bands I follow as dearly as TGA are of superstar magnitude with fandoms decades old. This just further propagates the "I've seen this many shows/traveled this many miles/have every flavour of every record ever made so therefore *I* am the biggest fan" bullshite.

While I personally have no issue with someone who wants to identify as a "superfan" or "diehard" or whatever, I've always taken issue with those who claim that the aforementioned notches on the belt makes them a *better* fan.  People have varying life circumstances, family, work, finances, commitments, logistics and millions of other reasons (ya know, like, not even being born yet) they can't or don't have access to those notches. It doesn't make them any less of a fan because they do not!

As far as this braggadocio / entitlement physically at shows, the examples you gave about why people may outwardly experience shows differently or maybe it's someone's first show were excellent and very, very true. We did all start there once, no matter who we are. Further, there are also other factors contributing to the bad behaviour of show entitlement.

Early access to tickets, these days granted by someone's ability to afford fan club access (and sometimes further awarded by length of loyalty in the fan club) or because they carry a sponsoring credit card.  As I pay for two fan clubs *just* for early ticket access, to say I've never then felt "entitled" to tickets would frankly be a lie. That said, I am aware it's really only to give me a better shot and is not a guarantee.

Early access to venues too, is such a slippery slope as it obviously becomes a world of "haves vs. have nots" no matter how seemingly affordable or well managed it may be. It will always NOT BE to someone.

I moved to NJ from the west coast semi-recently and the live TGA experience here is just shy of being unbearable, for me personally. Absolutely EVERYONE (says they have) been around since the earliest days and knows friends of friends of cats of dogs who know someone in the band. It is beyond annoying. One - who effing cares? Two - great, then let someone whose first, third, or even fifth show it is have the front. Because with the exception of say ten folks who I see on a regularly basis at these gigs who *always* show up supremely early and earn it; the majority of the others waltz in at the last moment and just wriggle up near the front, for the hundredth time. That, is entitlement.


Last edited by jensomniac on Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Debonair
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PostSubject: Re: Entitlement at shows   Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:08 pm

You make some valid points. People should be more open minded and I think that's just generally in life. The fact is you don't know who someone is. where they are in their life. Or what's running through their head or what they've been through.

In this particular matter, maybe strick up a conversation with someone and get to know them? I can honestly say I've met some of the nicest people at TGA shows. If after you've gotten to know them they still seem to give off that energy, that maybe wasn't the greatest, I can understand being disappointed by said persons actions.

Now I wouldn't say this qualifies though to those people who are absolutely "rude". The kind of people who get belligerently drunk, mosh and kick all over the place, or flat out disrespectful to what's going on around them. Really anything that's directly effecting an innocent bystander I can't get behind.


All in all let's all get along. Music is supposed to be about unity and fun Very Happy

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jensomniac
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PostSubject: Re: Entitlement at shows   Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:12 pm

^^ Very nicely put.
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Rose1991
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PostSubject: Re: Entitlement at shows   Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:22 pm

I think people who make a point to line up early are absolutely entitled to better spots at the shows. I mean if it's a seated show, that's a total crapshoot with lots of variables involved so it doesn't matter, but for GA shows, people who line up first deserve to get inside first. I don't care if you've seen them one time or 30, if you want a good spot you better get there before I do, and if I get there 20 minutes before doors and I'm 150th in line, well then that's my fault and I'll stand in the back. The line is king, and every single person wanting to attend the show should be subjected to the exact same gauntlet. Nobody should be allowed to get a better spot at a GA show because they spent more money, whether it was towards the artist or towards the venue. That's why everybody had such a problem with the first version of the preshow package, because nobody deserves to be over a financial barrel to get the spot they want when they've already bought tickets that were the same price as everybody else's. I don't care who's more dedicated, who knows the words better, who's seen them more times, etc. If you wanna be there, get in the fucking line with everybody else.
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rem999
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PostSubject: Re: Entitlement at shows   Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:00 am

Rose1991 wrote:
I think people who make a point to line up early are absolutely entitled to better spots at the shows. I mean if it's a seated show, that's a total crapshoot with lots of variables involved so it doesn't matter, but for GA shows, people who line up first deserve to get inside first. I don't care if you've seen them one time or 30, if you want a good spot you better get there before I do, and if I get there 20 minutes before doors and I'm 150th in line, well then that's my fault and I'll stand in the back. The line is king, and every single person wanting to attend the show should be subjected to the exact same gauntlet. Nobody should be allowed to get a better spot at a GA show because they spent more money, whether it was towards the artist or towards the venue. That's why everybody had such a problem with the first version of the preshow package, because nobody deserves to be over a financial barrel to get the spot they want when they've already bought tickets that were the same price as everybody else's. I don't care who's more dedicated, who knows the words better, who's seen them more times, etc. If you wanna be there, get in the fucking line with everybody else.

I wasn't really referring to people who want to stand in the front at shows. I've been the guy in the past to get there early, and like I said the super dedicated fans should be rewarded for getting there early or finding out about semi secret shows. I can totally appreciate all of that. But how many times have you walked out of a show and someone has gone "The crowd totally sucked tonight". Saying that there was a lack of energy at a show is one thing, but writing off an entire crowd and implying you are the superior fan is ridiculous. A lot of tga fans identify with the energetic punk sort of scene but going crazy in a mosh pit or screaming every word at a show doesn't mean you deserve anything. Some bands like the national have a fan base that are totally mellow and don't show as much energy at shows. There shouldn't be any sort of stigma or judgement at shows is all I'm trying to say I guess.
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DeathoftheCool
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PostSubject: Re: Entitlement at shows   Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:04 am

Debonair wrote:

Now I wouldn't say this qualifies though to those people who are absolutely "rude". The kind of people who get belligerently drunk, mosh and kick all over the place, or flat out disrespectful to what's going on around them. Really anything that's directly effecting an innocent bystander I can't get behind.

All in all let's all get along. Music is supposed to be about unity and fun Very Happy

I agree with what Debonair says here. Entitlement can be annoying, but I don't think it's as much of a problem as the kind of behavior Deb is talking about ^
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Rose1991
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PostSubject: Re: Entitlement at shows   Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:06 am

Well I don't think that people who aren't going crazy are bad fans; they're just a different type of fan. Some people like moshing; others don't. I don't think there's any particular way people should behave just as long as they give a shit and are happy to be there.
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