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 Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)

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PostSubject: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:09 pm

From the El Jefe Facebook page:
Quote :

El Jefe Design



I received a few e-mails regarding the cost of the 45 RPM Club poster as it relates to cost of joining the club. Although I'm not responsible for pricing, I want to share my thoughts. This will be the only time I address this issue. Please direct further questions to Infinite Merch. I am not a member of the club so I am going off my recollections.

For $25 you get a shirt, stickers, laminate, a 7" that is forthcoming, and some digital stuff like pre-orders or whatever. Again, I don't know the details but from my perspective you are getting a great deal.

A shirt is a least $5 to print, stickers are roughly 50¢ each, and a membership laminate is around $2 - $3. Then you include shipping and handling which for the US is roughly $8. Overseas it is around $14. So that is around $15 or in physical costs when joining.

Now figure in a the 7". Those can cost at least another $5-$8 to produce plus more shipping cost.

You also need to pay people for running the site, printing, designing (ME!), hosting fees, etc... That costs more money.

These are not the exact numbers but if you do the math it adds up quickly. At the end of the day, The Gaslight Anthem is most likely losing money on this not making any.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:26 pm

I'd like to see an explanation on how the Super Deluxe Cd cost $70 but that's a whole other can of worms.

I bought the poster only because I really liked it but that's probably the last poster I buy this year, unless I really like a poster of a specific show I actually attend.

I am not complaining about how the Club cost $25 but I don't think we signed up for the chance to get taken advantage of, right?
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:28 pm

I don't think $40 for a limited poster is out of line at all in price. Have you seen what some of the one's for other bands go for? I know TGA is not "huge" in the mainstream (yet), but $40 is still a fair price.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:32 pm

I guess we are all used to $25-30 posters so this is seen a a significant hike in price so of course there is some sticker shock.

I understand and appreciate that El Jefe and Gaslight and other need to make a living off of their art though, as long as they're seeing the money I am okay with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Definitely appreciate Jeff posting this even though he shouldn't have to defend the club. The breakdown seems like common sense to me. At no point did the 45 RPM Club promise discounted merch or posters at cost, just access to exclusives.

SirBrad wrote:

I am not complaining about how the Club cost $25 but I don't think we signed up for the chance to get taken advantage of, right?
How are they taking advantage of anyone? I thought the poster was a little expensive, so I voted with my $ and didn't buy one. Same thing I did with the super deluxe cd/book. No one's forcing people to buy these but plenty will so apparently the price isn't really all that crazy.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:52 pm

okay I will retract that statement about being taken advantage of I just thought perks like this poster wouldn't mean a price increase of 60% of what we're used to paying, that's all.

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:34 pm

Brian did say at one of the Terminal 5 shows that they ARE losing money on the fan club.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:51 pm

I like the design enough to think that its worth $40. If it was a design I was less keen on (I don't really like the classic monsters/villains series for example), I wouldn't bother.

If TGA are making a little bit back on this to offset any previous losses on the club then fair play to them - it was never included in the membership package and no-one's forced to buy it.

I guess if all 250 sell out quickly, then they priced it ok (or even too low).
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:01 am

I saw El Jefe's response before I saw the price and I immediately thought, "wow did they charge like $60+ for it?" I was shocked to find out it was only $40.

I think we get it in our heads sometimes that they're taking us for granted and expect us to pay more than we should. But another way to look at it is that we take advantage of them because they're not that famous yet. There's a limit to what they get away with charging and we expect them to stay well within our definition of that limit, without thinking about what it may cost them.

If the fact that they're losing money just to have an affordable fanclub with cool perks doesn't say that these guys aren't trying to rip us off, I don't know what does.

SirBrad wrote:
I'd like to see an explanation on how the Super Deluxe Cd cost $70 but that's a whole other can of worms.

I think that was largely due to it being full of Danny Clinch's photos. He's not some no name photographer. I just wish it had been advertized better so we knew what we were getting. I thought 60 pages meant 60 photos not 30 photos, every other page is lyrics, and most of the photos had already been posted on the internet or in the making of video.

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:02 am

It'd make more sense to me if the fan club membership was $40 and the poster was $25. I guess it's a learning curve for the band, it'll get better.

£31 for an El Jefe limited print delivered from the USA isn't too bad to me. I liked the design so I bought it. Just like I'll buy the upcoming Handwritten one for whatever that's worth.

The only criticism I have at the moment is the fact that USA members seem to get priority entry to things like tv tapings where's we didn't get anything for the Maida Vale session or Johnny Cupcakes show. Maybe if they can get some of us in for things like that I wouldn't mind so much.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:15 am

bringiton wrote:
The only criticism I have at the moment is the fact that USA members seem to get priority entry to things like tv tapings where's we didn't get anything for the Maida Vale session or Johnny Cupcakes show.

indeed

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:15 pm

I am glad I didn't spend $25 to join the 45 RPM club. Let's be honest for a minute, the answer to the scalping wasn't to create a fan club, it was simply to play larger venues in their high demand markets. There will always be scalpers as long as there are no laws against it, however there is a difference between playing a 500 person club in NYC which allows scalpers to sell their tickets for 3-4x face value and playing T5 sized venues and tickets go $10 over face value. If i recall correctly, tickets didn't sell out right away and fans had plenty of time to buy their tickets before resorting to stubhub.


As for the club itself, my "fandom" isn't measured in $$$ i give them. I know it sounds self-righteous and others in a different thread said the same thing but it's true. I love TGA but i'm not going to just give them my money for a chance to spend more money on them (tickets, posters). I understand that $25 for the most part isn't that much money and they try to compensate you a little bit by giving you some free stuff. However, from what others have said the stuff has been pretty bad. I can't say anything for the smaller nicknack's like the stickers and laminate, but apparently the shirt was pretty ugly and i'd be a bit let down if their holiday bonus was an acoustic desire and the audio rip of Halloween from the T5 show. But I understand also it's the first time with the club so maybe things will improve with time, but my initial take is its unnecessary and the quality of what they're giving you sort of shows that right now they aren't too concerned with it. So that's my take, maybe next tour the fan club will have more of a purpose for the fan base than it does now, but if you think it's $25 well spent then who cares what I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:21 pm

StitchesOnTheRadio wrote:
I saw El Jefe's response before I saw the price and I immediately thought, "wow did they charge like $60+ for it?" I was shocked to find out it was only $40.

I think we get it in our heads sometimes that they're taking us for granted and expect us to pay more than we should. But another way to look at it is that we take advantage of them because they're not that famous yet. There's a limit to what they get away with charging and we expect them to stay well within our definition of that limit, without thinking about what it may cost them.

If the fact that they're losing money just to have an affordable fanclub with cool perks doesn't say that these guys aren't trying to rip us off, I don't know what does.

SirBrad wrote:
I'd like to see an explanation on how the Super Deluxe Cd cost $70 but that's a whole other can of worms.

I think that was largely due to it being full of Danny Clinch's photos. He's not some no name photographer. I just wish it had been advertized better so we knew what we were getting. I thought 60 pages meant 60 photos not 30 photos, every other page is lyrics, and most of the photos had already been posted on the internet or in the making of video.

I hear ya. I fully understand the cost is only $25 and supposedly one of the main reasons for doing the fan club thing was ticketing and I've come back down from my statement saying we're being taken advantage of...I just think they need some tweaks. Obviously the demand for the fan club at $25 was good enough, maybe they miscalculated and should have charged $40 but with a few more perks? I still think a lot of people would have signed up.

Yes you're right about it being Clinch's photos I guess. I'm still a little pissed about it though, especially when I compare if to other similar items that go for a lot less, or other great items that run the same amount. I still haven't even opened it. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:55 pm

greasylake wrote:
I am glad I didn't spend $25 to join the 45 RPM club. Let's be honest for a minute, the answer to the scalping wasn't to create a fan club, it was simply to play larger venues in their high demand markets. There will always be scalpers as long as there are no laws against it, however there is a difference between playing a 500 person club in NYC which allows scalpers to sell their tickets for 3-4x face value and playing T5 sized venues and tickets go $10 over face value. If i recall correctly, tickets didn't sell out right away and fans had plenty of time to buy their tickets before resorting to stubhub.


As for the club itself, my "fandom" isn't measured in $$$ i give them. I know it sounds self-righteous and others in a different thread said the same thing but it's true. I love TGA but i'm not going to just give them my money for a chance to spend more money on them (tickets, posters). I understand that $25 for the most part isn't that much money and they try to compensate you a little bit by giving you some free stuff. However, from what others have said the stuff has been pretty bad. I can't say anything for the smaller nicknack's like the stickers and laminate, but apparently the shirt was pretty ugly and i'd be a bit let down if their holiday bonus was an acoustic desire and the audio rip of Halloween from the T5 show. But I understand also it's the first time with the club so maybe things will improve with time, but my initial take is its unnecessary and the quality of what they're giving you sort of shows that right now they aren't too concerned with it. So that's my take, maybe next tour the fan club will have more of a purpose for the fan base than it does now, but if you think it's $25 well spent then who cares what I think.
That's a fair post.

I joined the club, predominantly for the priority tickets. Over here, that's been fairly pointless. I don't think anyone who was online at the general on-sale time would have had a problem with any UK shows on the previous or upcoming tour. Plus, we generally have access to other pre-sales over here too (O2 springs to mind). I think in a couple of cases I bought via the O2 presale because it was more convenient than navigating IM's site!

The t shirt wasn't great, the stickers were ok (but I'm getting a bit old for that!). The music is ok and we're getting a 7" too at some point. I think at $25 its just about justifiable but I'm already considering not bothering next year, or seeing if my bro wants to go halves purely to retain the ticket access.

All that being said, I don't feel like they're trying to rip anybody off or exploit fans, even with this latest poster release - $40 is fairly standard for a limited EJ poster (I paid $50 for the Sandy one). Its a fairly unique model (they've only really got PJ's 10 Club to go off) and who knows how it might evolve?


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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:39 pm

SirBrad wrote:
StitchesOnTheRadio wrote:
I saw El Jefe's response before I saw the price and I immediately thought, "wow did they charge like $60+ for it?" I was shocked to find out it was only $40.

I think we get it in our heads sometimes that they're taking us for granted and expect us to pay more than we should. But another way to look at it is that we take advantage of them because they're not that famous yet. There's a limit to what they get away with charging and we expect them to stay well within our definition of that limit, without thinking about what it may cost them.

If the fact that they're losing money just to have an affordable fanclub with cool perks doesn't say that these guys aren't trying to rip us off, I don't know what does.

SirBrad wrote:
I'd like to see an explanation on how the Super Deluxe Cd cost $70 but that's a whole other can of worms.

I think that was largely due to it being full of Danny Clinch's photos. He's not some no name photographer. I just wish it had been advertized better so we knew what we were getting. I thought 60 pages meant 60 photos not 30 photos, every other page is lyrics, and most of the photos had already been posted on the internet or in the making of video.

I hear ya. I fully understand the cost is only $25 and supposedly one of the main reasons for doing the fan club thing was ticketing and I've come back down from my statement saying we're being taken advantage of...I just think they need some tweaks. Obviously the demand for the fan club at $25 was good enough, maybe they miscalculated and should have charged $40 but with a few more perks? I still think a lot of people would have signed up.

Yes you're right about it being Clinch's photos I guess. I'm still a little pissed about it though, especially when I compare if to other similar items that go for a lot less, or other great items that run the same amount. I still haven't even opened it. Laughing


Sorry if you took that as me just lecturing you specifically. I meant it more as a general statement given a lot of peoples' reactions to a variety of things in the last few weeks. Very Happy

I agree though, perhaps there are affordable ways to make it better but I think their main goal was just to get it going. I'm sure they'll do more with it in the future. I'd definitely pay $40 if they upped the quality of the shirt and added like one more thing but if they started the club at $40 everyone would have been like "how dare they START at $40" haha.

Agreed. Haha, I almost didn't open it so I could return it but it's not refundable. I've looked at it once. It's not even good for holding the CD because it's too big to carry it around with you. I just put the disc in a blank case. At least I got a signed copy! Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:18 am

I think a better designed shirt would have calmed a lot of people down. They would have felt like they got their money's worth. The problem is that I see no utility from the shirt (other than something I can probably ebay later), I don't care about a laminate. Throw a cool shirt into the deal, and I feel like I got my money's worth. As it is, it came up a little flat but I don't regret buying in.

Jefe's $5-$8 for a 7" is pretty high, unless they are doing some super amazing packaging. Especially given that the audio was taken from a live show and not a sound studio.

One thing that I am not clear on -- is this supposed to be a zero sum operation or are they taking profit? If Brian could come out and say "Look, we are just getting this thing started and their are some up front costs. In the future, whatever we take in from dues is going right back out to the fans in perks" then that would be saying a ton. I'm not sure if it is a zero sum operation, though. Giving a shirt or other merch away probably eats into merch sales, which are crucial for most bands. I guess there is probably no way for him to talk dollars and cents without it coming off as petty.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:13 pm

thebiglebowski wrote:
Jefe's $5-$8 for a 7" is pretty high, unless they are doing some super amazing packaging. Especially given that the audio was taken from a live show and not a sound studio.

One thing that I am not clear on -- is this supposed to be a zero sum operation or are they taking profit? If Brian could come out and say "Look, we are just getting this thing started and their are some up front costs. In the future, whatever we take in from dues is going right back out to the fans in perks" then that would be saying a ton. I'm not sure if it is a zero sum operation, though. Giving a shirt or other merch away probably eats into merch sales, which are crucial for most bands. I guess there is probably no way for him to talk dollars and cents without it coming off as petty.

Jeff is giving an estimate to give people an idea of things, not an exact breakdown. $5-8 is in the right ballpark for a single. Yes, you can find singles for slightly less but the old singles were ~$7 before shipping, so it's not that far-fetched. Something like $10 shipped is definitely a fair estimate.

It's pretty naive to think the fan club is going to be a zero sum/non-profit operation and frankly why should it be?
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:19 pm

I just think a fan-club is to create band loyalty, not a way to consistently move merchandise. But I'm not saying it should be non-profit. Just maybe "small profit" is the right description?

I buy singles retail for less than $5 all the time. The production on these is probably about $2.5 -$4 each, depending on whether proper packaging is used or something cheap.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:45 pm

thebiglebowski wrote:
I just think a fan-club is to create band loyalty, not a way to consistently move merchandise. But I'm not saying it should be non-profit. Just maybe "small profit" is the right description?

I buy singles retail for less than $5 all the time. The production on these is probably about $2.5 -$4 each, depending on whether proper packaging is used or something cheap.

It's not a charity. They're providing a service and have to pay many people to make things run. As has been said before, I'd be surprised if there where profits at all at this point.

You seem to be nitpicking about the price of a single. Yes, you buy them in stores for $5. Yes, you can find things cheaper. But once you add shipping for a single 45, you're looking at $8-10. I don't think there's any disputing that.

The real question though, is a ballpark figure of $10 including shipping for a single from Gaslight Anthem a fair price? Based on past releases, I'd say yes.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:58 pm

Jefe said that a 7" costs $5-8 to produce plus shipping.

I am saying from previous knowledge that a 7" costs about $3 to produce usually, $2 to ship, and 50 cents for packaging. That number would go up with fancy packaging, but I have the feeling we are getting something simple. I don't know about the rest of the stuff so I didn't comment.

He is high on the estimate. That is all.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:28 pm

thebiglebowski wrote:
Jefe said that a 7" costs $5-8 to produce plus shipping.

I am saying from previous knowledge that a 7" costs about $3 to produce usually, $2 to ship, and 50 cents for packaging. That number would go up with fancy packaging, but I have the feeling we are getting something simple. I don't know about the rest of the stuff so I didn't comment.

He is high on the estimate. That is all.

That's fine. You're right, he's high on that production cost. His overall point has merit though.

I still think it's more important to look at a retail value when trying to figure out if people are getting their money's worth. A single like this would cost at least $10 shipped if you were able to buy it separately. That may be more than others but it's not outrageous like the last RSD single.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:42 pm

The 7" is going to be worth way more than $25 on ebay if you're into getting your money back.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:06 pm

Pressing 7"s is not cheap for small quantities.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:30 pm

I would wager there are well over 500 members. They sold 220 $40 prints already. I'd bet there are over a thousand. That is not a small quantity by vinyl pressing standards.

Yes, no doubt it will go for more than it should, given that an unlimited people could have just signed up. Vinyl is just weird sometimes, like when still in print records go for more on ebay than they cost from the label.
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PostSubject: Re: Understanding where your $25 goes (45 RPM Club)   Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:44 pm

Last I saw in the club thread it was well into a thousand for members (people posted their I'd numbers) if everyone in the club gets one there are bound to be a ton out there. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't go for much on eBay. Mainly cause most people who collect gaslight vinyls are part of the fan club already thus will get one. Also with how many copies of it will be out there - I could see the demand just might not be there for it.

Maybe in the early days of selling (like the thc record store day finger print exclusive) it will be up in price. But even that came down after all the left over copies made their way to eBay. So I guess sell fast/ early and high if you want to make a profit lol

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