A forum dedicated to The Gaslight Anthem - Brian Fallon says: ''For consistent and up to the minute stuff, Dimestore Saints is a great place to check out and hang with some really nice people.''
 
PortalHomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Brian on dinosaurs/evolution

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
AuthorMessage
gaslightfan89
Red In The Morning
Red In The Morning


Posts : 61
Join date : 2010-05-05

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:50 am

Harbortown wrote:
I think that not believing in evolution is kinda like not believing in the holocaust.

That's actually quite hyperbolic to say. The holocaust is a recent event that is really indisputable its documented and there are people still alive who survived it.

Evolution is something that is almost impossible to dispute but its got at least a very very very very very small twinge of ambiguity in that no one is actually was there to see it happen (Once again any good science minded person can see that's how it happened). Don't make those type of comparisons peoples faiths aren't logical things.
Back to top Go down
Harbortown
The Navesink Banks
The Navesink Banks
avatar

Posts : 6693
Join date : 2011-04-13
Age : 26
Location : Kingdom of the Swedes

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:53 am

Quote :
peoples faiths aren't logical things.
Exactly. Which is why they draw illogical conclusions like "evolution isn't real". Which is bad.
Back to top Go down
loazis
The '59 Sound
The '59 Sound
avatar

Posts : 1227
Join date : 2010-01-24
Age : 27
Location : On the flipside, Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:38 am

The main 'problem' I have with the kind of religious people that would deny evolution, is that they live their life based on something that is based on nothing concrete and consequently I feel like they are by definition, at least to a certain degree, not open to reason.

I honestly have issues with the fact that the people that are running my country are seemingly unable to have a rational discussion about the very nature of our existence and the universe in general. I fear that I cannot take a person who thinks that events like the Ark of Noah (or who negate evolution) actually occurred too serious. At the very least, the thought of such people (and with such people I don't mean 'those bloody' Christians or Muslims or Jews or whatever; I mean people who ignore factual evidence and appear to prefer the unlikely explanations that some men wrote down thousands of years ago above the ideas and minds of our current age) making the decisions that govern our countries and ultimately the planet, I feel a little sad.

Just for the record, this discussion is apparently no longer about Brian's ideas.
Back to top Go down
Ghost
A Contender
A Contender
avatar

Posts : 163
Join date : 2010-10-27
Location : Lincolnshire, UK

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:22 am

Jay wrote:
The war the United States is in in Afghanistan is in direct response to religious extremists who killed thousands of people simply because they do not believe the same set of ideas.

Just for another curveball...the war in Afghanistan did not begin on 9/11. And 9/11 wasn't fuelled by not sharing the same set of ideals.
Back to top Go down
rumham
Wooderson
Wooderson


Posts : 345
Join date : 2011-08-18

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:12 am

As long as Brian is not advocating others to believe in creationism or openly supporting these unqualified republican candidates who share his beliefs then I have no problem with it. Obviously I think Brian is very naive to think that evolution isn't the catalyst for how we got here, but then again religious beliefs unfortunately allow you to have unsubstantiated beliefs which you can caulk up to "faith". To Brian's credit, he is not alienating any of his fans or band members with his beliefs, if you remember Bruce was criticizing Republicans' during his concerts. Fortunately for us, Brian is making music and not making any decisions that directly affect our lives. If it gives me any legitimacy, I do have my degree in Biology and I don't plan on thinking less of Brian despite him being extremely misinformed.

On a separate topic, I do recall Brian saying he does think Dinosaurs existed. So if it makes you feel better, I guess he's not one of the really radical creationists who think the Earth is 6000 years old and dinosaur fossils are man made.
Back to top Go down
thebiglebowski
A Contender
A Contender


Posts : 215
Join date : 2011-02-10

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:01 pm

gaslightfan89 wrote:
Harbortown wrote:
I think that not believing in evolution is kinda like not believing in the holocaust.

That's actually quite hyperbolic to say. The holocaust is a recent event that is really indisputable its documented and there are people still alive who survived it.

Evolution is something that is almost impossible to dispute but its got at least a very very very very very small twinge of ambiguity in that no one is actually was there to see it happen (Once again any good science minded person can see that's how it happened). Don't make those type of comparisons peoples faiths aren't logical things.

Making this my last post. As others have said, this thread started with a small scope but feels like it is gradually getting bigger and bigger.

Nothing in this world is truly "indisputable". There are theories in physics that say that even if I walk into a wall and get stopped a google ^ google times, there is some infinitely small probability that the next time I do it, I will walk right through (since atomic particles locations cannot be known in absolute terms, only with some probability). So my point is if you don't call something that happened with 99.9999% probability indisputable, then you cannot call anything indisputable, even the "laws" of physics.
Back to top Go down
Jay
A Contender
A Contender
avatar

Posts : 298
Join date : 2009-11-24
Age : 26
Location : Lincoln Park, Chicago

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:08 pm

Ghost wrote:
Jay wrote:
The war the United States is in in Afghanistan is in direct response to religious extremists who killed thousands of people simply because they do not believe the same set of ideas.

Just for another curveball...the war in Afghanistan did not begin on 9/11. And 9/11 wasn't fuelled by not sharing the same set of ideals.

...? You might want to explain yourself before you say something so blatantly false. Please tell me what the motives were, then?
Back to top Go down
joshyboytyler
Red In The Morning
Red In The Morning
avatar

Posts : 99
Join date : 2011-02-23
Age : 27
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:33 pm

Holland wrote:
My only view is that constantly telling people what you don't believe in is a waste of energy and rather negative.



True!
Back to top Go down
joe
Red In The Morning
Red In The Morning


Posts : 28
Join date : 2010-02-17
Age : 26
Location : vancouver, canada

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:51 pm

Holland wrote:
My only view is that constantly telling people what you don't believe in is a waste of energy and rather negative.

I get your sentiment, however many countries who are predominantly of a certain religion try to impose their views on the population. In America, for example, they are plagued by issues concerning gay marriage, abortion, and teaching creationism in school. When religion is limiting the rights and freedoms of its citizens, I think it is alright to take a stand and say what you don't believe.
Back to top Go down
Harbortown
The Navesink Banks
The Navesink Banks
avatar

Posts : 6693
Join date : 2011-04-13
Age : 26
Location : Kingdom of the Swedes

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:52 pm

chanter wrote:


On a separate topic, I do recall Brian saying he does think Dinosaurs existed. So if it makes you feel better, I guess he's not one of the really radical creationists who think the Earth is 6000 years old and dinosaur fossils are man made.
For six thousand years we've roamed this earth
And I would take you serious if I had your mind
But I'm a christian man in a world of science
And you're smart like some Einstein
Back to top Go down
Bea
The Navesink Banks
The Navesink Banks
avatar

Posts : 1578
Join date : 2010-05-26
Age : 25
Location : Luxembourg / Spain

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:54 pm

wow, you guys really know how to blow some simple comment out of proportion Shocked
Back to top Go down
Harbortown
The Navesink Banks
The Navesink Banks
avatar

Posts : 6693
Join date : 2011-04-13
Age : 26
Location : Kingdom of the Swedes

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:54 pm

Bea wrote:
wow, you guys really know how to blow some simple comment out of proportion Shocked
It's not a simple comment and it's perfectly in proportion.
Back to top Go down
IrishNameAndAnInjury
The Navesink Banks
The Navesink Banks
avatar

Posts : 13514
Join date : 2011-09-16
Age : 35
Location : Spokane Valley, WA

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:59 pm

Harbortown wrote:
Bea wrote:
wow, you guys really know how to blow some simple comment out of proportion Shocked
It's not a simple comment and it's perfectly in proportion.

Yep. When religion or beliefs of any sort are involved, things are rarely simple. I think it's pretty cool though, that we can all discuss this topic in a civil way, even when we don't all see eye to eye.
Back to top Go down
Harbortown
The Navesink Banks
The Navesink Banks
avatar

Posts : 6693
Join date : 2011-04-13
Age : 26
Location : Kingdom of the Swedes

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:05 pm

IrishNameAndAnInjury wrote:
Harbortown wrote:
Bea wrote:
wow, you guys really know how to blow some simple comment out of proportion Shocked
It's not a simple comment and it's perfectly in proportion.

Yep. When religion or beliefs of any sort are involved, things are rarely simple. I think it's pretty cool though, that we can all discuss this topic in a civil way, even when we don't all see eye to eye.
Haha yeah, I agree, religious debates tend to get out of hand, and although this has started to steer into another direction, we're all civil and that's nice.

Back to top Go down
TGAFAN25
The '59 Sound
The '59 Sound
avatar

Posts : 1124
Join date : 2009-05-28
Age : 28
Location : Washington, D.C.

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:42 pm

It really is a testament to us here at DSS that we can debate without it turning nasty... Many a time I've seen boards where it just gets really ugly, really quickly.

Way to go my friends Smile
Back to top Go down
gaslightfan89
Red In The Morning
Red In The Morning


Posts : 61
Join date : 2010-05-05

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:43 am

Harbortown wrote:
Quote :
peoples faiths aren't logical things.
Exactly. Which is why they draw illogical conclusions like "evolution isn't real". Which is bad.

Its bad to deny science but for me at least I think its not on the same level as denying the Holocaust which is a comparison you made. I just wanted to point it out that you shouldn't make that type of comparison even if the intention wasn't anything nefarious.

I just didn't like that particular comparison.
Back to top Go down
gaslightfan89
Red In The Morning
Red In The Morning


Posts : 61
Join date : 2010-05-05

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:47 am

thebiglebowski wrote:
gaslightfan89 wrote:
Harbortown wrote:
I think that not believing in evolution is kinda like not believing in the holocaust.

That's actually quite hyperbolic to say. The holocaust is a recent event that is really indisputable its documented and there are people still alive who survived it.

Evolution is something that is almost impossible to dispute but its got at least a very very very very very small twinge of ambiguity in that no one is actually was there to see it happen (Once again any good science minded person can see that's how it happened). Don't make those type of comparisons peoples faiths aren't logical things.

Making this my last post. As others have said, this thread started with a small scope but feels like it is gradually getting bigger and bigger.

Nothing in this world is truly "indisputable". There are theories in physics that say that even if I walk into a wall and get stopped a google ^ google times, there is some infinitely small probability that the next time I do it, I will walk right through (since atomic particles locations cannot be known in absolute terms, only with some probability). So my point is if you don't call something that happened with 99.9999% probability indisputable, then you cannot call anything indisputable, even the "laws" of physics.

Your getting into a very nuanced argument about the definition of indisputable. All I wanted to point out was that wasn't the best comparison to make even if I understood and agreed with its general intention, I think I got my point across.

Anyway enough with this topic, I love TGA and love Brian no matter what he believes. Just as long as he doesn't preach his message at TGA concerts and such I am fine.
Back to top Go down
Harbortown
The Navesink Banks
The Navesink Banks
avatar

Posts : 6693
Join date : 2011-04-13
Age : 26
Location : Kingdom of the Swedes

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:53 am

gaslightfan89 wrote:
Harbortown wrote:
Quote :
peoples faiths aren't logical things.
Exactly. Which is why they draw illogical conclusions like "evolution isn't real". Which is bad.

Its bad to deny science but for me at least I think its not on the same level as denying the Holocaust which is a comparison you made. I just wanted to point it out that you shouldn't make that type of comparison even if the intention wasn't anything nefarious.

I just didn't like that particular comparison.
Why not?

Think about it for a while and then give me a rational argument to explain why not. If the argument is that "people should believe what they want no matter what's true or not", then doesn't the same go for holocaust deniers? If their political conviction is that Hitler was ultimately a good man, shouldn't they be allowed to think that the holocaust never happened?

No, because it's irrational and illogical to deny fact. I don't think that religion should make it okay to think whatever you want. It's 2011, not year 11.
Back to top Go down
gaslightfan89
Red In The Morning
Red In The Morning


Posts : 61
Join date : 2010-05-05

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:07 am

Harbortown wrote:
gaslightfan89 wrote:
Harbortown wrote:
Quote :
peoples faiths aren't logical things.
Exactly. Which is why they draw illogical conclusions like "evolution isn't real". Which is bad.

Its bad to deny science but for me at least I think its not on the same level as denying the Holocaust which is a comparison you made. I just wanted to point it out that you shouldn't make that type of comparison even if the intention wasn't anything nefarious.

I just didn't like that particular comparison.
Why not?

Think about it for a while and then give me a rational argument to explain why not. If the argument is that "people should believe what they want no matter what's true or not", then doesn't the same go for holocaust deniers? If their political conviction is that Hitler was ultimately a good man, shouldn't they be allowed to think that the holocaust never happened?

No, because it's irrational and illogical to deny fact. I don't think that religion should make it okay to think whatever you want. It's 2011, not year 11.

No its not a good comparison, the Holocaust happened people who lived it are still alive as well as further documentation exists.

Evolution has much more ambiguity than the Holocaust. The fact is that while Evolution is scientific law science its still even by science's own admission up for debate. What debate, I don't know but science will never say anything is "fact".

Denying something people to this day lived through and witnessed is worse then denying science which is doubted and adjusted all the time (Darwin had no idea how genetics worked, but others came along and supplemented and changed his works to be more accurate, so if someone said Darwin's theory was fact right after it came out they would be wrong).

I guess my nuanced argument of "fact" in science stems from the "fact" that I am a biology major and all the time I am told that nothing in science is 100%(Science all the time adjusts its laws just take a look at astro physics). So someone doubting Evolution as silly as that sounds to me seems a lot less logical then denying something like the holocaust happened.

Trust me if you are ever around scientists they will hear an argument against evolution (They will laugh at you but they will hear it) before they hear one that the Holocaust never happened (Won't even entertain the idea).

Thought my last post was my last one on this topic but I really just didn't like the comparison

Back to top Go down
Harbortown
The Navesink Banks
The Navesink Banks
avatar

Posts : 6693
Join date : 2011-04-13
Age : 26
Location : Kingdom of the Swedes

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:11 am

Back to top Go down
riversedge
I'da called you Woody
I'da called you Woody
avatar

Posts : 630
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 24
Location : UK/New York

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:40 am

So... any Atheists in the house?
Back to top Go down
Harbortown
The Navesink Banks
The Navesink Banks
avatar

Posts : 6693
Join date : 2011-04-13
Age : 26
Location : Kingdom of the Swedes

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:03 pm

riversedge wrote:
So... any Atheists in the house?
That's a bit of a stretch.
Back to top Go down
gaslightfan89
Red In The Morning
Red In The Morning


Posts : 61
Join date : 2010-05-05

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:33 pm

Harbortown wrote:
http://youtu.be/sb2uB4_7CBY

Still not an apt argument. Science is always up for debate ALWAYS (Any good scientist will tell you that). Well witnessed and documented history isn't. Yes trying to impose religious beliefs into the public education system is wrong very wrong and there is no way a public school should teach creationism ever.

Also Holocaust deniers aren't well learned, his whole argument isn't a very apt comparison and is a very hyperbolic jump to conclusions.

Its far worse to deny a major recent human rights atrocity didn't happen, then to deny science as a matter of faith (The basis of faith not being based in logic, history can only be based in logic).

The fact that faith is the basis of creationism makes it different from being a Holocaust denier. I am not going to respond to any further posts on the topic as its getting out of hand, I am clearly not going to change your mind about the comparison and neither are you to me. So its pointless to keep going on and on about this.

Back to top Go down
Debonair
First Among Equals
First Among Equals
avatar

Posts : 4155
Join date : 2011-08-31
Age : 25
Location : New Jersey

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:42 pm

People have their own opinions, your not going to change them by yelling at them, or providing facts, or reason -9 out of 10 times. This discussion is basically turning into a your wrong, I don't believe you, and the same things are being said/ repeated. And people are just going to have their own view on things, if you can't live with that, sorry that's life. Its a waste of energy to try and convince people to believe what you want them to. If you have something new to add to this discussion, I'm all ears, but for the most part, I think alls been said.

_________________
Andrew

Ndakasimba kana makisimbawo

Made the list.
Back to top Go down
thebiglebowski
A Contender
A Contender


Posts : 215
Join date : 2011-02-10

PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:33 pm

gaslightfan89 wrote:
Harbortown wrote:
http://youtu.be/sb2uB4_7CBY

Still not an apt argument. Science is always up for debate ALWAYS (Any good scientist will tell you that). Well witnessed and documented history isn't. Yes trying to impose religious beliefs into the public education system is wrong very wrong and there is no way a public school should teach creationism ever.

Also Holocaust deniers aren't well learned, his whole argument isn't a very apt comparison and is a very hyperbolic jump to conclusions.

Its far worse to deny a major recent human rights atrocity didn't happen, then to deny science as a matter of faith (The basis of faith not being based in logic, history can only be based in logic).

The fact that faith is the basis of creationism makes it different from being a Holocaust denier. I am not going to respond to any further posts on the topic as its getting out of hand, I am clearly not going to change your mind about the comparison and neither are you to me. So its pointless to keep going on and on about this.


Agreed science is always up for debate, but evolution is about as "indisputable" as gravity. Yes, there are many theories regarding gravity (is there a gravity particle?) but no scientist has ever denied the law of gravity, just as no scientist has ever put forward a theory that is counter to evolution. That's not to say that even "laws" can't be modified.

Your argument that "nothing in science is 100%" has an analogous argument in history. No one is 100% sure of the death count from the death camps. Maybe there were further crimes against humanity committed that will one day be exposed as documentation that has been hidden is discovered. History is always being modified, but whether the major events happened or not isn't. Evolution is in the same boat. That's why it is fair to compare them.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Brian on dinosaurs/evolution   

Back to top Go down
 
Brian on dinosaurs/evolution
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 4Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Meeting between the PJ, Metodo 3 and Brian Kennedy
» Brian-kennedy.co.uk
» Dragon - Brian Chan CP
» flying carp by brian chan
» Brian McFadden

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
DimeStoreSaints.com :: The Gaslight Anthem :: Discussion About The Band-
Jump to: